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DAM UNIVERSITY

The Secret to a Warm Fireplace

6/3/2015

51 Comments

 
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~by Karl Zarling

AHHH, FIREPLACES - Gosh, how we love them. If only they worked better. This is the story of a fella known as Count Rumford, who was presumably at some point...cold. Sometime in the late 1700’s, which feels like a cold time to me. He believed fireplaces could work better, and he decided to do something about it. Most of us in the U.S. never got the memo describing how to make a natural, wood burning fireplace that works well, but luckily for you, here at DAM we did get that memo, and we’d like to tell you a little about it. You want to know the secret to building a toasty and efficient fireplace? Read on, chilly friends.

Quick ground rules - before any of you get all worked up and ALL CAPSY AND RUN ON SENTENCEY (this is the Internet after all), let’s make a few things clear: I am not here to debate the economic virtue or efficiency merits of an open, natural fireplace versus something like a modern, efficient woodstove, or an insert, or gas burner, or pellet stove, or how dumb I am and how much smarter any of those things are. If you’re thinking about going there, let’s just agree that a high-efficiency gas furnace beats all of those options, if we’re purely talking heating efficiency. Note that I am not including masonry heaters in that mix as they are a whole different animal, and shall be covered on another day. The point is that there are many here among us - including myself - that just like fireplaces, natural wood burners, with no doors in the way, or blowers, or any other mechanical magic. The fire is magic enough. And we believe there’s a better way to build fireplaces. Are we good here? Excellent. Moving on.

PictureThe Count
Per Wikipedia - so it must be true - this Count Rumford fella was actually born Benjamin Thompson, in Woburn, Massachusetts. He’s regarded as a physicist (though barbers kinda were, too), and a scientist, and inventor, among other things. Props: he’s got a moon crater named after him. Now, he didn’t necessarily get everything right, and there were assertions he’d made that were proven to be incorrect. Mostly it seems like Thompson/Rumford liked to turn conventional beliefs upside down and explore possibilities that others had dismissed or were just not curious enough to care about. For this he ranks high on my Informal List of Dudes, and deserves to be called Count Something, anyway. And some of what he did get right had to do with heat. We’re going to focus on Rumford’s fireplace observations, beliefs, and designs, and from here forward I’ll refer to this general kind of fireplace design as a ‘Rumford’.

PictureIf U.S. fireplaces were a pickup truck
HOW IT’S USUALLY DONE - Here’s a mental picture of how modern or conventional (NOT Rumford) fireplaces are mostly built in the U.S. They generally begin with an overly big, deep firebox - the part you place the wood in, where it actually burns. Unlike a lot of timber-light regions of Europe back in the day, the U.S. has largely enjoyed a relative abundance of burnable wood, so by goodness we like our fires big, which means a huge firebox. Which as an aside can look awfully silly when we don’t have a massive fire burning...so we’re really just wasting wood now, but more on this later. Then this thing called a smoke shelf is built above the firebox, typically along with a bottom mounted damper.

These modern fireplaces often don’t draw very well, and usually don’t heat well, either. Sure, they look pretty, and hopefully smell good, and that’s great. Again, if we were after purely heating efficiency or safety we most certainly wouldn’t cut a hole in our roofs and build a fire right there in the middle of our living room, nevermind all the problems this intentional hole in our roofs can cause (again, another discussion). Nonetheless, we can still try and do better at these, right? As I said, I love fire, and fireplaces. There’s something primal about fire; it’s mesmerizing, satisfying, calming, sexy, the whole deal. The fireplace, the surround, and chimney all add aesthetic interest and appeal to a home, and they can absolutely improve a home’s salability.

THE RUMFORD WAY - So how’s a Rumford better? Here are a few big pluses: 1) a smooth ‘throat’, designed to improve draw up the chimney, 2) angled side/back walls, which provide more reflection of radiant heat, directing it out toward people and the room, and 3) overall more warmth using fewer burning logs, while still producing lots of beautiful flame.

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THE THROAT - The smooth throat is nothing like the ‘smoke shelf’ approach. Rumford’s feeling was that the best way to get smoke moving up and out of the stack was to remove anything in the path that would impede it. Imagine turning a miniature fireplace upside down...and pouring water into it. Water flows cleanly through a smooth path. This is how Rumford designed his fireboxes, allowing smoke to smoothly exit vertically. The myth is that you just need to make the firebox deeper, to somehow make the smoke ‘stay in the back’ and go up the flue (and not into the room). It just doesn’t work that way. Part of the problem is the hoops the smoke has to jump through to actually get up and get out of there, and the way it swirls and mixes along the way.

*Note that how a chimney ‘draws’ - how well/easily smoke rises and gets out the stack - also has everything to do with building pressurization and ‘make up air’. Suffice it to say that modern, tight houses can present challenges to fireplace draw, as do other factors, if the stack is on an outside wall, or centrally located in a home, relative chimney height, lots of variables...which we’ll also have to cover in another article!

**One more, related to the throat and lack of a smoke shelf, a quick note on dampers. When we are building a strictly wood burning fireplace/chimney, with no gas appliances in the firebox or even gas assist to light a fire, we generally recommend and install top mounted dampers. These are better sealing and therefore more energy efficient, and they do a better job of keeping critters and weather out of the chimney flue. However, when we have any gas lines running to a firebox, we recommend bottom mounted dampers. Building code requires that fireboxes that use gas lines have dampers that ALWAYS stay open at least slightly, to allow potential gas buildup to escape, and this is the easiest/safest way to ensure this.

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THE WALLS - Here’s the biggie, what I consider the real difference maker in Rumford design. So in modern fireboxes you’ve got this deep configuration, a horizontal box, with an iron grate at the bottom to hold a big pile of logs.

What happens here, unfortunately, is nearly all of the heat from the fire goes right up the stack, and not into the room.

Rumford fireplaces generally are more vertical...taller and sometimes narrower. They have a much narrower back wall, as the side walls are turned in at the rear to give them much more of an angle relative to the front.

It’s this angle and the reflection produced that delivers radiant heat to you in front of the fireplace. I will vouch for this...these things throw off a remarkable amount of heat as compared to a traditional firebox. And the entire firebox is generally fairly shallow, which further helps bring the heat into the room and not up the chimney.

FEWER LOGS - MORE HEAT - Also note that while you don’t have to do it this way, the intention with Rumford is to simply lean the logs on one another vertically, against the back wall. Some of our clients still like the look of iron grates, but these are really not necessary, and yes, you may stack logs horizontally, just like Dad always did it. But because the unit is more vertical in design to accommodate the logs in this way, more actual ‘flame’ is produced using fewer logs, producing more heat and eye candy while using less fuel (wood)!

Fun fact: if we're really doing this right, we actually light this wood at the top. I know, the humanity, right? Seriously, google it. It burns cleaner and more fully, less ash, all good.

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OLD SCHOOL BEAUTY - These fireboxes are also really pretty, by the way...they’re not like a standard dark, sooty thing that looks terrible unless it’s burning. We have color options for the fire brick itself, and our masons are able to do different patterns, herringbone looks, and even combine multiple brick colors to your specification.

Here's a photo of a conversion we did, from a conventional fireplace to this beautiful Rumford (and it doesn't hurt that the client made fantastic design selections with these gorgeous, custom stone legs and mantel).

​
THE BULLET LISTS - Let’s take a moment to reflect upon and review a few Common Fireplace Bummers (CFBs), virtually ALL of which I’ve personally experienced, that are commonly solved by using a Rumford design:

  • Hooray! After many sideways glances from family members, that fire is going. And it looks great, and you’ve thrown on enough wood to make a beaver blush. It even heats you up some, if you stand exactly. directly. in front of it. You’re proud. We’re all proud. So one, maybe two people stand and feel the heat while the rest of us look at their behinds.

  • Hours have passed and you’re ready to be done now, but there’s a huge pile of super hot embers, and loads of ash, from so much wood. So we can’t close that damper now...it’s gonna take hours for it to cool down enough to be safe...we’ll close it in the morning. In the meantime it sucks the heat out of your home while it completely stops putting out its own heat, and then of course you do forget to close that damper in the morning. You’re reminded of this days later as you find yourself chasing a beautiful but uncharacteristically dirty duck around the living room with a blanket.

  • For some of us, this is a perpetually smoky experience, as the draw is never quite right, swirling smoke into the room, and is often accompanied by dangerous, repeated creosote buildup. You’re reminded of how it felt 25 years ago in the bars.

  • Some of us try putting doors on there. So the heat we feel is reduced considerably, and we sure don’t get that primal fire feeling - it’s a little ‘tidy’ now, isn’t it - but there are at least a few possible or perceived advantages: less fear of sparks flying, or potentially less heat loss up the flue due to choking the source of air somewhat, and particularly if your chimney is on an outside wall, doors could indirectly help reduce smokiness in the room due to temperature differentials...long story. But in my opinion, maybe now we might as well have gas logs, and at least we’d get some heat out of it.

IT GETS BETTER - Of course there’s more, but let’s clear our palettes of this Bummerplace (see what I did there) and hit the high notes of how life could be improved with a Rumford:

  • For starters, this could be a brand new fireplace/chimney that you’ve hired us to build, in a new home, addition, or remodel...OR, it could absolutely be a retrofit, changing out an old unit. Annnd...as we are masons (i.e., “ar-TEESTs”) after all, while we’re making your old fireplace more functional, we might as well rip down that nasty old 70’s fakey stone that’s on there, and put up some beautiful new stone, or brick. We’ve changed fireplace faces from funky to formal and vise versa, and we’ve reduced huge walls of stone or brick to simple surrounds...lots of options here. Instead of your dated fireplace creating spousal division, let’s all hold hands and feel the love with some fresh stone we can all agree upon.

  • In the course of building this new firebox, we now in many cases remove the old bottom damper and smoke shelf entirely. At the top of the chimney (outside), we install a spring loaded, top mounted damper. This is controlled via a cable into the fireplace area. When you close it, unlike bottom dampers, it actually seals decently well, which helps to keep your heat bills down, critters out, and downdraft from giving you that charming smokehouse smell in the home when you’re not burning a fire (NOTE: I’m again talking about strictly wood here; life changes if you have a gas line installed...you’ve gotta leave your damper open in those cases, a safety thing).

  • This design has important functional changes. Rumford believed strongly in having a simple and unimpeded way for smoke to exit. Traditional smoke shelves force the smoke to change directions, and can create swirling and other effects that conspire to mix air in ways that interfere with draw and allowing the smoke to leave cleanly. Our Rumfords utilize a smooth, curved ‘breast’, and generally a straight back, that the smoke easily follows up and out.

  • Traditional fireboxes are wide, deep, and not usually very tall, and you mostly lay a bunch of logs in a pile on a big metal grate. You’ve got a ton of wood, way back in there, and almost no heat is reflected back into the room. You feel a little from direct exposure to fire, and the rest bangs around in the box and literally heads straight up the flue. By contrast, Rumford fireboxes are generally taller than they are wide, or at least close to square. They’re shallower, and don’t need to be deep. The angled walls, left and right, provide significantly more reflectance of radiant heat, and a MUCH wider ‘field’ within which to feel heat; you can be off axis and no longer have to be standing exactly in front of it to feel it. This all does a considerably better job of reflecting radiant heat out into the room and the occupants...this firebox design is really the ‘a-ha’ thing about Rumfords in making people feel warm.

  • Part of the original idea of Rumford was to be able to use fewer logs, and still produce heat. With a Rumford, you ideally (but not necessarily) stand them against the back wall, vertically. Having them arranged like this increases the amount of flame, while using fewer logs. Really beautiful, lots of flame, easy to manage, and not nearly as much ember and ash as a big old pile. You’ve just gotta make sure you have adequately dried/cured firewood.

IN CLOSING - I hope this has been a helpful addition to your ‘all about fireplaces’ knowledge, and maybe it’s opened your eyes to the benefits of this terrific design, one that really only a small percentage of masons have much experience with. Dale Anderson Masonry has been learning and applying new and improved techniques to their work for decades, and in this case, it took a look in the rear view mirror to find a great solution for the future. Thanks for reading along, and as always, feel free to contact us to chat about your next masonry project.

51 Comments
SMith, Steven W.
1/6/2016 08:04:51 pm

I'm interested in a masonry heater for a small 1200 ft2 home in Racine. Do you travel or know of someone working in this field in Racine?
262 598-6172

Reply
DAM
1/22/2016 01:00:16 pm

Hi Steven. SO sorry for the very late reply; we weren't notified of your comment for some reason. Will reach out to you shortly.

DAM

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Clifford
6/20/2016 12:10:51 pm

I am going to build an outside fireplace if i do a Rumford design and i want the front to be four feet across how deep do i make it?

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DAM link
6/20/2016 01:13:11 pm

Hi Clifford,

I'm going to defer to the guys I consider the experts in terms of dimensions...here's a link to 48" opening on the Rumford.com site:

http://www.rumford.com/R4846.GIF

Best wishes,

DAM

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Clifford
1/23/2017 11:39:20 am

Thanks Dam,

That has answered all my questions.

Cheer,
Clifford

Robert
10/28/2016 05:23:08 am

Looks like your pics are backwards, Modern looks taller? ??? Ive been in the trade my whole life 4 generation mason and I don't buy into any of it,Sorry

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DAM link
11/24/2016 09:51:42 am

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comment. As the illustrations show (they're not ours, taken from another Rumford site), the opening to the firebox itself is typically taller on a Rumford, as is the rear/vertical wall of the firebox itself (I'm not counting the smoke shelf and damper of the modern as part of the firebox).

That said, you're the ideal candidate to build one and see how it works! Let us know if you'd ever like to chat about it.

Cheers,

DAM

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Sumyungguy
11/9/2017 08:09:22 am

Lol that's because with your vast experience and knowledge of masonry you looked at the images depicting a bird's eye view of the firebox from the perspective of looking down the chimney and thought that the WIDTH of the "modern version" opening was the HEIGHT. Go look again. Hopefully if you have a 5th generation of masonry in your family tree, you teach it to be more observant and open minded of ideas and techniques that they haven't encountered . even the master of a trade, any trade, can learn something new regardless of the decades spent only doing the things you were taught. How many doctor's who practiced medicine for 50 years prior to 1950 thought cigarettes didn't do damage and morphine was perfectly ok to give a toddler for a cough?

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Chris Foley
12/16/2018 11:24:21 pm

Do stick to masonry as your social IQ is room temp. Have any friends?

tom
1/20/2017 11:50:05 pm

If you did a complete change over on an old fireplace would it mean replacing the entire flue?

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DAM link
1/23/2017 11:56:00 am

Hello Tom,

In short, it depends. That said, if the existing stack and flue are in decent shape, are large enough, etc., then no, we've mostly been able to remove the old stuff, rip it down all the way into the old smoke shelf and bottom damper, all of that stuff goes away, and we carefully put in the new components and firebox. Which would often times include putting a new cable-activated top-mounted damper on top of the stack. If you're in the area we could talk about someone from DAM stopping by and having a look.

Cheers,

DAM

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tom satterlee
1/25/2017 11:40:05 pm

Hi and tthanks for the response:

Seems I remember you are on the east coast and I am in Arizona so no such look see would not be possible. If I might, would the efficiency of my fireplace be increase if I changed only the manner in which the firebox is constructed by installing new firebrick in a manner simulating what you would normally do?

Again, Thanks,

In Christ,

Tom

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DAM link
1/26/2017 07:48:32 am

Hi Tom. In a word...maybe. Though it's hard to envision just how one would do that, both in terms of safety, and durability (and I'm talking about heat, and support, and the joints, which ultimately becomes about safety). When we change an old fireplace over, as I said, we totally remove everything 'in the way', to allow that brand new, smooth throat to be inserted, which attaches to the flue above it, and then we build the firebox itself from the bottom up to meet it. The new throat is what helps it draw properly, and to leave an old smoke shelf in there and try and work around it with new firebox dimensions...I see this being challenging, at best.

We've been meaning to post some more before and after pictures of a job, and I have a good candidate, just need to get the owner's approval. This will show really how far in it gets demo'd before new stuff goes up!

Thanks for your question, and all the best.

DAM

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Gary Zouzalik
4/28/2017 10:19:07 pm

I'm building an outdoor fireplace, I'm not a mason, but a very good carpenter and DIY guy. Instead of buying 6$ each for fire brick, I'm wondering if the red "Groesbeck" brick I have available (old ones from mother in law) would sub as "firebrick". I'm at critical stage in my build and need to get started on the fire box. I am in Cen Texas. Other red bricks I have say "Standard" stamped in them. Can you please help?

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DAM link
4/29/2017 09:40:31 am

Hi Gary,

Good for you, fun project, and I'm sure you're up to the task!

Unfortunately I am not up to the task of identifying specifically which - if any - brick might be anything like an adequate substitute. That said, Obvious Guy says that it's great that it's outdoors, so you're not particularly worried about outcomes from emissions getting past joints or brick, and it's additionally helpful that it's in Texas and not Wisconsin, as harsh freeze and thaw cycles won't be as much a factor. It's just the heat, and how ordinary brick will handle it.

You might take a sample of each of them to a local brick supplier and pick their brains. I'm continually impressed by how much the suppliers we work with around here know about brick...can just touch them and often times have quite a good idea of their composition and properties, what they're all about. But there's no way anyone is likely to say 'sure, use this'. Firebrick obviously is designed to withstand super high temperatures, and also to my knowledge to reflect heat, and it's chemically created differently to serve these ends.

All that said, the DIY guy in me says, okay, how about you make a really hot campfire and throw a couple of each into it, and when they've cooled, have a look at which seem like they're least affected. As long as, of course, your material selection is okay in your neck of the woods in terms of code, any permits you may have to pull to build it in the first place, which may include acceptable materials, etc. and make the whole exercise moot. And as long as you're okay with the possibility of them failing spectacularly after 20 hot fires, and you've gotta break down and redo it with firebrick. Lastly, I suppose Paranoid Guy in me might be concerned about one or another brick actually exploding if it got hot enough. While exciting, this would not be a recommended outcome. You know, the more I think about it, the more I want you to just buy the firebrick!

Sorry we can't be of more help on this; we rely on our brick vendors to be the knowitalls on things like this! Good luck with your project and thanks for checking in.

Cheers,

DAM

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joanne
11/30/2017 02:48:43 pm

Curious to know how to what you do to insulate a 6 foot brick fireplace from the 20s. It seems that the brick conducts a rediculous amount of cold so that we don't even use the living room in the winter. It doesnt have a chiminey it just seems to have some vents in the wall like an upside down L when it was converted to gas. These have long ago been sealed but short of covering all the brick with something not sure what to do with it. It already juts into the living room about 13 inches.

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DAM link
11/30/2017 03:15:17 pm

Hello Joanne. Yes, brick and stone that's exposed to the cold outdoors absolutely can and will transmit a whole lot of cold into a room. And certainly from that time period, it's not a stretch to imagine that the flashing surrounding the brick could be compromised or just poor all around (allowing heat out and cold in). If you're not using it, honestly, you might just consider getting a contractor/home improvement/remodeler person in there to remove it completely. There's nothing you're really going to do, in my opinion, to easily make that thing stop letting your heat out. And even if you were using the gas unit, the vast majority of older units are extremely inefficient, as well, so kind of a lose/lose at this point. Just my two cents! Good luck with it and thanks for your question.

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Greg
12/26/2017 04:23:21 pm

Question,

I read about an old Swiss designed fireplace that was the center of the home. It would burn while everyone was up, and stay warm all night because the smoke snake through a maze of natural rock. With so much surface area being warmed it stayed warm all night. The snaking chambers would catch creosote and burn out, adding fuel to the warmth. Have you ever heard of these, and if so, ever seen any drawings or designs?

Reply
DAM link
12/29/2017 10:29:52 am

Hi Greg,

Sorry for the slow reply...holiday vacation!

In short, that sure sounds like a masonry heater. Which we do build, actually...we're members of the Masonry Heater Association. You can find their site at http://www.mha-net.org with lots of additional information.

There are lots of different types, but yes, the premise of these is that you (generally speaking) do short, hot burns, and the fire heats of the mass of the unit, all of the block, brick, stone, whatever it's built out of, and then that heated up mass continues to emit heat into the room for a fairly long time. We love them!

Cheers,

DAM

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Sarah M
12/15/2022 10:32:54 pm

The Swedish kakelugn, the Russian stove (often with a bed on top!), and the Korean stove (built under the floor) are all amazing designs. Radiant heat can provide efficient warmth for quite some time.

Roscoe link
6/28/2021 08:59:00 am

Interesting design...haven't ever heard of that design before. Might go look it up and research it!

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mike link
1/17/2018 12:08:50 pm

I have a 1960s house that had a 40 inch wide 24 inch tall fireplace, the typical deep box. On closer examination it looks like the lintel had been lowered by 4 to 6 inches probably in an attempt to make it stop smoking, but by the time you build a fire in it all the flame was behind the lintel. Neither warming nor attractive. I had the lintel raised back to the original height and decreased the size of the opening by adding two rows of firebrick on either side of the firebox and an additional role plus some backing insulation on the fire back. The opening is now 30 inches wide and 29 inches high. The problem is unless the fire is in the back half of the box it still smokes. I suspect that the biggest problem is the flue that is clay tile and approximately 8 x 12. The fireplace did not have an original damper and I put a chimney top swing damper on it. I suspect the solution is to have the flu size increased. Please share your thoughts and if possible a recommendation for a reliable Mason in the Mobile Alabama area

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DAM link
1/17/2018 01:00:40 pm

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your message, and I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. First, the easy one: no, we don't know anybody we can recommend firsthand really outside of Wisconsin.

Okay, that said, a couple of thoughts: with (bad) draw, and you maybe already know all this, but I'll be Obvious Guy, and you'll have to forgive me. Yeah, we're talking about a few things. Certainly the flu size can be a factor, and yes, the construction of the smoke shelf, how easily smoke can flow up and out. The flip side is we've all seen fireplaces that are terrible in both of these ways, and they still draw just fine. So that starts to speak to the other reasons, which relate to temperature differential, and pressure.

I have a few questions, and then would suggest a really simple test, one that you've maybe already done. How much taller is the top of the stack, outside, than the highest point/peak in the home? Does the stack go through 'attic' space of any kind, and/or do you even have an attic, or is it cathedral ceiling? Is the stack on an outside wall, or is it more 'inside' the home?

And finally, the test: if you obviously do everything as 'right' as you can...you open your top damper all the way, you use cured, good quality wood, start with a very small kindling burn to slowly warm up the stack before making it a rager....AND...if you also opened up a window or partially opened an outside door while it started burning...will it still smoke up the room? In other words, if it's a pressure and/or makeup air thing, that will give you some insight. The only reason the smoke wants to come back into the room is because it's easier. So...you need to figure out why it should be easier for smoke to want to come back into the room than go straight up and out a hole in the roof.

Let me know on those fronts. In short, this can be a slippery thing to chase. We've seen many times where the only good solution was to, for instance, extend the height of the stack to where physics just flat made the draw go up the stack, and no longer back into the room. As you're down in AL, that at least should rule out some of the very weird temperature differential things that can happen up here (like -7 degrees outside, and a stack running through a cathedral ceiling where it's maybe 85 degrees or something up there). So maybe it does boil down to relative stack height, and yes, as you said, the actual size of the flue. Let me know if you've done any experimenting with makeup air and what the relative heights look like.

DAM

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Steve Thompson link
3/24/2018 09:19:25 am

Just tripped over this site and, besides being very funny, is a wealth of information. A little embarrassed but I'll share my story - I went cheap and had a beautiful outside stone fireplace put in on our house in North Carolina. Beautiful. Problem is, a massive, cinder block fire box. Draws beautifully, pretty to look at, but I didn't know what I was getting. Have a mason coming out Monday to shape the firebox and install firebrick. Can't wait. Thanks for this information.

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DAM link
3/26/2018 07:00:55 am

Hi Steve. Very glad you found this helpful, and best wishes with the project!

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Even G. Kulsveen link
9/21/2018 04:12:35 pm

Read your comments on Rumford fireplace design.
I have several old homes (ca.200yrs old) as well as modern.
The old homes have lots of fireplaces in them. Most of them have problems. I would like to have something done to make them efficient and beautiful. Any suggestions?
Can you recommend anyone close to my area in Bardstown, Kentucky. About 40 miles southeast of Louisville, Kentucky.
Also have several old log cabins from pre civil war era. they have "big" fireplaces, but not necessarily very efficient.
Anything you can recommend would be appreciated.
Thank you for your attention to this.
Sincerely,
Even G. Kulsveen

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DAM link
9/21/2018 06:25:02 pm

Hello Even,

That's a great question. We shoot very straight around here, so here are my thoughts (!): Beautiful? Absolutely. Efficient? Well, no. The reality is, there is no such thing as efficient with an open firebox, woodburning fireplace. Just don't want you to get your hopes out of whack with reality. We believe Rumfords are better than conventional, but not anywhere near very efficient.

In my opinion, the larger issue for you will likely be about the rest...everything but the Rumford conversion part of things. Though maybe being as far south as KY will help you. If you were up here in WI, the flues would almost certainly be damaged and/or just plain unsafe after that many winters, which can quickly change the game as far as how overall viable or practical a Rumford firebox conversion would be, just the amount of effort and money that would need to be poured in. If the flue tiles are shot, maybe even the old stone or brick stack is also damaged (the veneer), and the caps are almost certainly gone or rough...then for most people, just installing a stainless liner and doing some kind of an insert, either wood burning or gas, is way more economical and tons more efficient.

All that said, if I haven't scared you off the idea, sure...if you've got flues and stacks that are safe and intact, a decent mason can really make most fireboxes into Rumfords. And they can find all they need to build one at rumford.com; the dimensions, recommendations, where to purchase the pieces, and a bunch of masons that have done these, many of whom would be happy to help someone learn a little and give them their two cents.

So find a mason that’s been around a while but isn’t too crusty or curmudgeonly, and send them to rumford.com, or our article, or even us directly! Best wishes with it and thank you again for your question.

DAM

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Francis Casini link
10/3/2018 06:08:12 am

Hello Dale I’m a 4th gen mason whom back when the book “ The Forgotten Art of Buiding a Good Fireplace by Vrest Orton” was published started building Slanted Rumfords.
Jim Buckley also did similarly at the same time but stuck with the straight back firebox affixing the name “True Runford” to, along with Superior Clay whom markets precast throats for.

The past 30 years have been especially favorable to the StraightBack advocates because of simplistic style fireboxes however more to the fact that their rear positioned throats are nearly 1/2 the area of a slanted up front throat!

I’ve been fooling with novel dampers for slants for 30 years and developed a reverse tilt lintel damper for the Orton Slanted Rumford which is very enabling.
It is public free to make by anyone and has been by engineers whom along with invented enabling technology burn their Ortons to throat /opening. Ratios as high as 1/55 in 36” boxes and 1/40 in larger 48” Boxes.
As you know the standard throat ratio for The True Rumford StraightBack by Superior Clay and Jim are 1:20 which is best case scenario in many situations.

It is common here in my CT. home to have my 50” Orton burning all winter ( weeks straight day and night) with a throat at 1/40 th the fireplace through
Just a1-1/4” x 47” long throat opening!
This past winter was a 7 cord season which heats my 3400 sf home while in the 20’s where as before with a 4” throat (all others out there do)
It literally froze the home all but if you stood in front of it, just as witnessed by many have complained about!
The difference is immense turning the open fireplace into near masonry heater thermal mass but with an radiant heat advantage!
The fuel consumption is also cut far back and in lockstep to the flow reduction.

There’s an Atlanta engineer doing the same thing with his 50” Orton designed by me.
Additionally and more recent I’ve developed a novel and free damper for straightbacks that when coupled with my invented enabling technology, enjoys throat reductions similarly to ratios of 1:50.

In addition I’ve proved with flow meters that flow rates are slowed lockstep to throat reduction
to rates that pale Ashrae’s reccomended rates!
Recently due to my chimney being hit by lightning
I’ve recently reduced the both my 50” Orton and 36” StraightBack fireplace flue tops to 11x11” and 10” x 6-1/2” for flue to fireplace ratios of 1:20!

This is being done by a young man whom also used my design and guidance in Macedonia as well as in Kenya!

I’m telling you this because although many know me by my internet posts on masonry blogs,
It still is thought that Rumfords need a 4” throat with all that cfm flowing up and out.

Check my site and see my novel damper for StraightBack Rumfords.

Frank Casini



Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:29:00 am

Hello Frank,

That is excellent, and fascinating. I'm finally coming up for air from some major projects and am going to have a closer look at what you've been up to.

DAM

Reply
Cam link
4/19/2019 06:22:37 pm

Great tips, I love my fireplace.

Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:30:53 am

CAM,

Fire = GOOD! Thanks for checking in.

DAM

Reply
Karen Kautto
5/22/2019 05:56:03 am

GM Dam...although I don’t have an indoor fireplace I have enjoyed Rumford fireplaces in friends homes & they are everything you state. But I do have a chiminea on my deck & they are as useless for producing heat as are conventional fireplaces. I live in the upper peninsula of MI & I’m always on the hunt for ways to extend our short summer....I’m too stubborn to buy a propane heater with no ambiance...so after that long narrative on to my ? Could one convert a chiminea in the Rumford style to throw more heat?

Karen

Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:34:13 am

Hi Karen,

Sorry, don't know how this got past me. Can you convert an ordinary firebox/system into a Rumford? Yes, we've done it. Is it always practical? Definitely not. If you're talking strictly outdoors, though...as you know, the payoff here would not be large, no matter what. The increased reflection of heat, yes, that would be good, the wider 'field' of what could be felt in front of it, yep. But being outdoors, you know...just not a game changer.

Best wishes and thanks for checking in!

DAM

Reply
Thomas Jameson link
6/14/2019 12:47:43 pm

It's good to know that a narrower fireplace will send more heat out into the room. My wife and I have been looking for a way to change our fireplace so that it heats our house more, and this might be just the way to do that. We'll be looking further into our options for changing up our fireplace in the future.

Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:38:05 am

Hi Thomas,

It's not a small change, and not inexpensive, usually...the conversion. So it's not for everyone...far more common for people to just buy an off the shelf (more or less) insert, which is even more efficient, easier, cheaper, all of it. Just no more open flame, and a big door, maybe with a window!

So many choices. Good luck with it!

DAM

Reply
Eli Richardson link
7/2/2019 11:05:10 am

I didn't know that a flue liner helps to emit gases and smoke from the inside of the chimney. My parents live in a house that was built in the 30s. This important fact will be pass to my father, so he can contact an expert for help

Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:39:52 am

Hi Eli,

Anytime we start a fire inside our house - intentionally or not - it's smart to work with an expert! Good luck with it and thanks for checking in.

DAM

Reply
Sarah Smith link
7/31/2019 03:57:30 pm

Thanks for the fireplace tips. I would really like to have a wood-burning fireplace. I get very cold in the winter.

Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:42:03 am

Hi Sarah,

Winter is cold. Maybe start with a sweater and work your way up.

Thanks for checking in!

DAM

Reply
Modus Fireplaces link
8/9/2019 03:33:15 am

Excellent explanation, it’s simple & focus plus Brief and Direct to the point.



Reply
DAM link
8/9/2019 07:42:41 am

Hi Modus,

Thank you, and for checking in!

DAM

Reply
Andrew K Mixer
11/6/2019 08:40:34 pm

Many "Rumford" designs I've seen have a box with an angled back, pitched towards the room about half way up to the damper and smoke shelf.

What are your thoughts about an angled back to an otherwise rigidly adherent to Rumford dimensioned fireplace?

Reply
DAM link
11/7/2019 11:35:35 am

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for reaching out. I guess I'd say that this just wouldn't describe a true Rumford...the easy flow straight up and out and without a conventional smoke shelf is sort of half of what makes it Rumford (and the other big one being the angled side walls, the reflected heat). Not to say that you can't have a firebox with angled walls and a more vertical firebox, but still with a smokeshelf, not that it won't work, or draw, necessarily, just not exactly a Rumford.

We got an interesting post (above, maybe?) from a fella that's putting in super tight/narrow, full width dampers into Rumfords, that his experience has been that the draw is great, still, but a whole lot less heat loss up the stack. Which is interesting to me, just haven't tried to build one yet.

Feel free to reach out anytime!

DAM

Reply
Philip Walden
12/4/2020 08:54:39 pm

I just had a fireplace built in my log home having a problem with it cranking we're the damper is. it's in the middle about 18" long running vertical. should he have left some space for the damper to expand. the hotter the fire the wider the crack gets. if that's the problem I'll cut the damper out and put one up top what's your thoughts

Reply
Rob Davies
1/5/2021 10:57:42 am

Hi there,
Fantastic helpful web page - thank you. I have a large fireplace which I have needed to stop down the aperture a bit to get it to draw. It is just about working now but as you say not radiating a lot of the heat. I think the throat is OK - close to the Rumford design but the space is square. Unfortunately I am in Wales UK so a bit far away! If I bring in the sides to a triangular section as you recommend what happens at the top - on my fireplace this would close off the throat at the sides so I am just wondering if that might reduce the draw?
thanks again for the great advice!
Rob

Reply
Ronnie Rowland Jr
1/9/2021 07:28:05 pm

3rd gen mason., I'm from a long line/family of Mason's, im having to retire at 43yrs of age with 30yrs experience due to rheumatoid arthritis, herniated disc,etc,etc,lol. One of many important features of a well constructed fireplace that was handed down to me as far as the displacement of heat starts with the dimension of the firebox that determines the size of the fly, but I was taught that heat rises ,cold air sinks. To always lay the back of the firebox straight up a pre determined distance before finally laying the back of firebox outwards at an angle toward the front. This allows not all but some of the upward flowing heat that usually goes up and out the flu to be bumped out the firebox into the dwelling. To much of an angle and you will get smoke with the heat as well. Not enough angle or no angle and the only thing you will have hurt is the fireplaces efficiency and maybe ones ego if I see it,lol.Of course other factors apply but I'm not about to get into all the scenarios.

Reply
Darrell
1/9/2022 12:32:05 pm

Great article! Thank you. How often do you have to replace the flue leading up to chimney? I have clinker brick that meanders slightly to the top of the roof. There is no liner, just clinker brick all the way up. If it is converted to a Rumford design, would the chimney need to be relined? Thank you.

Reply
Mia Evans link
5/11/2022 10:23:34 pm

I like that you talked about how bricks would have lots of options while being fresh stones that people would love. I would probably choose that kind of material for the fireplace and the walls of our home because of that. So I should look for masonry services instead when that part of the house needs to be renovated next year.

Reply
Kathy Frazier
10/22/2022 05:07:31 pm

Hello... I want to build a Rumford style fireplace in my "under construction" house in Mexico. Can I order a top mounted damper? A friend will bring it down.
Also what are the fireproof materials are used for the chimney?
"Often wrong but never in doubt" abounds here!
I need to be very specific with the person I select.
Thank you, Kathy

Reply
DAM link
10/27/2022 04:18:26 pm

Hola Kathy,

Good for you, sounds like a great project!

Top mounted damper? All over. Anywhere. Any fireplace shop will have access to these.

What should it be made of? Here, we only build block (CMU) stacks, which are heavy enough that they require poured footings, and deep ones at that, frost footings, due to the temperature swings here in Wisconsin. So you dig a deep hole, pour concrete, and build the block chimney above that. What you put over it then to look nice, the veneer, is really up to you. We mostly do full (depth) stone and brick, but sometimes people want to use thin stone or thin brick veneer. But it could be really anything you like, wood, plaster, whatever. The CMU/block is what makes it safe, in short.

If you were looking to simplify installation and/or save weight, you could do one or another lightweight kind of hybrid fireplace, like an Isokern: https://earthcore.com/the-types-of-isokern-series/

We only do it the old school way, but where you are down there, you know, something like Isokern might really be easy for you.

Your email asked if you could use decorative tile for the firebox. Can, I suppose, but should? I’d say no. Maybe if you were doing a gas fireplace. I don’t have any knowledge of what kind of heat a decorative tile could take on an ongoing basis, but my guess is that they would expand and contract enough to crack apart in fairly short order. The firebrick and special refractory mortar that’s used to make a firebox is made just for that purpose, to handle very high heat without busting apart.

More than anything, you know, just know that our overall opinion is that a fireplace, any fireplace…in terms of efficiency, there really is no way to make them particularly efficient or good ‘heaters’. Rumfords are better, but just not any kind of match for a modern furnace. Or even a wood stove. A closed and inexpensive wood stove or even an efficient fireplace insert will be far more efficient in terms of wood usage and actual heating than any kind of ‘open' fireplace. I suppose one other consideration might be a masonry heater; that’s a whole nuther animal, and those, yeah, they can actually really heat, and fairly efficiently. But yeah, whole different thing there, and not inexpensive.

Just my thoughts. Good luck with it and best wishes!

Reply
Michigan Fireplace and Barbeque link
12/5/2022 09:04:06 pm

The secret to having a warm, cozy fireplace is not complicated. All it takes is regular maintenance and care. Make sure you clean your chimney often, use only dry wood, and keep an eye on the damper. With these simple steps, you can stay warm and comfortable for many winters to come. Don’t let winter catch you unprepared – be proactive in maintaining your fireplace!

Reply



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    All opinions expressed here are just that, based upon our own experience. Believe at your own risk.

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